Are designers underpaid and overstressed?

I don’t consider myself a true designer, but I’m seeing job openings that want a graphic designer who also knows SEO, copywriting, html, php, css, java, mobile, etc.

These are jobs paying 30-35k where I’m at. Shit seems sorta ridiculous that the requirements are increasing with such shit pay.

I dunno, I’m probably wrong, but just starting a topic.

Charleston doesn’t exactly have a booming tech industry. But it probably does have a lot of unemployed college kids and "artists". Those job openings sound like bullshit, though.

I’ve never actually met a web designer who codes. I’m pretty sure they don’t exist. Also, graphic designer != web designer. Web design requires a different set of skills and a different approach to design. It really annoys me whenever I run into someone who draws in Photoshop and then calls themself a web designer. Inevitably, anything I code based on their design will take 10 times longer than if I was working with a real web designer.

Charleston doesn’t exactly have a booming tech industry. But it probably does have a lot of unemployed college kids and "artists". Those job openings sound like bullshit, though.

I’ve never actually met a web designer who codes. I’m pretty sure they don’t exist. Also, graphic designer != web designer. Web design requires a different set of skills and a different approach to design. It really annoys me whenever I run into someone who draws in Photoshop and then calls themself a web designer. Inevitably, anything I code based on their design will take 10 times longer than if I was working with a real web designer.

Yeah I need to learn about how to make photoshop layouts that easily convert to xhtml and such. Normally I just lazy my ass through landing pages that basically have zero text if I’m doing a non-wp site for one of my bullshit schemes

Yes, so many companies today want an "everything guy". And they aren’t willing to pay the true price for it. They want IT, SEO, Websites, Design, Coding, Content Development, Social, Video, etc. Anything online you name it! And it’s all on you..

You shouldn’t use Photoshop at all for web design. Use Fireworks.

it is partly our economy and also people passing themselves as being able to do everything with out any formal training and businesses believe everyone can do it all

oopsies

Wait what.. I’ve done every site in Photoshop. Save the PSD, send it out to get coded. Simple enough.. What does Fireworks do that Photoshop can’t? I can also slice in Photshop too.. All the web graphics I’ve ever done in Photoshop have came out fine..

Photoshop is awesome, despite what all the haters say. There’s a new debate about this I see almost every week. Personally I think Fireworks was forgotten by the wayside a long time ago, but that’s just me. Just because photoshop was meant for ‘editing photos’, doesn’t mean it is not an awesome tool to create beautiful website layouts. If you like fireworks use fireworks, if you like photoshop use photoshop. Anything beyond that is just a circlejerk.

Photoshop creates effects that can’t be reproduced in a web design without extensive use of images. It’s not web-friendly.

Fireworks can actually build the CSS for your design out for you. It’s super web-friendly.

Photoshop creates effects that can’t be reproduced in a web design without extensive use of images. It’s not web-friendly.

Fireworks can actually build the CSS for your design out for you. It’s super web-friendly.

Ermm what Not every website on the internet is intended to be as simple design-wise as stackoverflow.com, thats just silly. That’s up to the developer to figure out cross-browser implementation and gracefully-degrading elements. Having the design be limited because the tool ‘does too much’ is just crazy.

You can also reproduce probably 80% of the effects from photoshop using CSS3 anyway (I’m not talking about filters which you should probably never use in photoshop). Drop shadow, gradient, rounded corners, inner shadow, etc. Some of these are more reliable than others, but there are an awful lot of options to get around the problematic areas (CSSPie, etc).

Build css out for you?? Using tools to code for you = bad bad bad (for any serious projects that is). For small projects who gives a crap.

edit: To clarify, Stormy… for noobs it could be a bad idea. But then again, garbage in garbage out. Noobs using any tool are probably going to make garbage (garbage as in.. bloated, not efficient, not following best practices, whatever)

what? of course you make the images in photoshop and then code it from that. chop the bitch up, find out where you want your text to go, make code.

photoshop should not be used for web design. if you need something graphics heavy, then create the assets in photoshop but the web design should not be done in photoshop.

there are obviously exceptions, but in general, no, a designer should not be using photoshop.

Um, no. You should do it wherever you god damn well please. Who are you to decide what someone should use? PSD’s are more than acceptable as a source for coding.

a web designer that produces PSDs is a web designer that is failing to keep up with his industry. i avoid them.

i don’t care what they’re most comfortable with using. they need to be using the correct tools, and photoshop is not the correct tool for web design. if you’re using photoshop for web design, then you’re producing low quality designs or you take too long.

but like i said, there are exceptions, namely band and video game websites, which are often more about eye candy than they are about interface — which is essentially the point here: photoshop is insufficient when it comes to user interface design. that’s not what it’s for.

Why you’re working with people that produce low-quality designs that take a long time to begin with, I don’t know… That sounds like a problem with the people you work with, not what tools they use. So far I have had 100% satisfaction rate with GOOD designers that choose to use photoshop for even minimalistic sites (not just eye candy), and it takes no longer than any other swinging dick that uses a different program.

If I hired someone to design a fully text-driven site, which deals mainly with typography or something else (wikipedia style?), I still wouldn’t even care, as long as it’s very good, delivered on time, and is clean.

I hate this debate that theres the ‘best tool’ you have be using or it’s "wrong". (this doesnt mean I wouldn’t playfully give you shit though)

This boils down to the same thing with text editors. Do I think using notepad++ is insanely retarded when you could use something like vim or emacs? Or even textmate? Yes.. but I have no say in people’s workflow — If they are a coding madman, and produce amazing results, it doesn’t matter what they use. Really.. IT DOESNT MATTER. My JS programmer has delivered far better code than anyone I have ever dealt with, and he uses notepad++. It drives me crazy that anyone uses that, but I don’t say "IN THIS INDUSTRY.. THATS THE WRONG TOOL TO USE!" because he fucking owns that god damn tool like thor owns his hammer.

I see way too many people slicing and chopping something up in photoshop and using them in web design, instead of learning how to code it and avoid having to slice up a design

I have taken something that was designed in photoshop and make a design out of it and not have to slice or chop it up to make it look the exact same way

True, but it can do quite a lot. I was telling my friend, I can’t wait for the day we can do different blending modes with css (overly, multiply, etc). He’s like … you can. So I check, and indeed you can Not anything to use in production but that’s a good sign for the coming years

I don’t work with them. I just said I avoid them.

The fact here is that a PSD cannot do what CSS can do. A designer that uses photoshop is limiting their design to the capabilities of photoshop if they are producing designs in PSD format. This limitation manifests itself as either producing a low quality design or taking too long to produce a high quality design (that’s not to say that they miss deadlines or take too long for their clients).

An auto mechanic might be able to rotate your tires using nothing more than a shitty roadside jack, a few wrenches, etc., but it’s going to take a lot longer than the guy who has a lift and some air tools. Sure, they can both produce the same results, but one is just a lot slower at doing it and therefore receives a lower volume of customers and has to charge more for each job if he’s going to do it for a living.

Based on the one site of yours that I’ve seen, I’d say that it might very well be the case that you have lower standards than me. Your site did not follow current design trends; it is not responsive/adaptive, for example. Also considering that you were talking about graceful degradation (instead of progressive enhancement or polyfills), it might be the case that you’re not keeping up with the industry. If that’s the case, then your judgment of what constitutes a quality design can be called into question.

Sorry but calling my design skills into account for personal projects to discount what I’m saying is a low move Pineapple.io has a design that I absolutely love (as do others), and while there is no responsive version I don’t really feel the need to implement that when the site is changing so much and there’s a lot of more important things to address by a one-man-team. If youre referring to spotify.io, that is responsive, and was coded in a weekend… none of that has to do with what I said though.

HTML, CSS, and JS are the languages of the web. Ultimately your design will be converted into these. So yes, they can do everything related to website design.

If you’re intending to say that CSS can’t create assets, then, well, no shit? Assets are not interface design. Assets are used within the interface. Graphic designers, illustrators, photographers, etc. create assets. Web designers create interfaces.

what about those of us who do both?

is it OK to use Photoshop sir?

Lol dreamweaver. I had someone from my aim list ask for help asking why dreamweaver was taking so long. I was like uhhh.. dreamweaver? What’s it doing?

Apparently they were downloading an entire 2gb ftp to their local machine and trying to ‘sync’ it or whatever.

what about those of us who do both?

is it OK to use Photoshop sir?

If you’re a pro at Photoshop, go for it. Most people who use Photoshop for web design aren’t pros, though, and they’d be better served by learning and using Fireworks.

what about those of us who do both?

is it OK to use Photoshop sir?

I do both, but I don’t use photoshop myself to design sites, I have gotten them from clients in the past, but it is not something I go to, to do my web design with

No.

a web designer that produces PSDs is a web designer that is failing to keep up with his industry. i avoid them.

i don’t care what they’re most comfortable with using. they need to be using the correct tools, and photoshop is not the correct tool for web design. if you’re using photoshop for web design, then you’re producing low quality designs or you take too long.

but like i said, there are exceptions, namely band and video game websites, which are often more about eye candy than they are about interface — which is essentially the point here: photoshop is insufficient when it comes to user interface design. that’s not what it’s for.

So much dumb shit being posted in this thread.

Just because I know how to use After Effects doesn’t mean I’m going to stop using Final Cut Pro or Premier.

They serve different functions, even if one is more powerful. Premier/FCP are faster at doing video editing. After Effects is more powerful and better at producing high quality effects.

Just like Photoshop+Bridge can’t replace Lightbox. Just like InDesign can’t replace Acrobat.Just like Dreamweaver can’t … actually, fuck Dreamweaver.

No.

You’re adding so much to the debate.

I’ve only worked with about 30 different designers who use Photoshop, so my sample size isn’t that big, but only two of them produced designs that were web-friendly, and their PSDs were still shit. At least 80% of them were full-time designers. About half claimed to be web designers while the other half called themselves graphic designers.

what about those of us who do both?

is it OK to use Photoshop sir?

If you’re a pro at Photoshop, go for it. Most people who use Photoshop for web design aren’t pros, though, and they’d be better served by learning and using Fireworks.

what about those of us who do both?

is it OK to use Photoshop sir?

I do both, but I don’t use photoshop myself to design sites, I have gotten them from clients in the past, but it is not something I go to, to do my web design with

No.

a web designer that produces PSDs is a web designer that is failing to keep up with his industry. i avoid them.

i don’t care what they’re most comfortable with using. they need to be using the correct tools, and photoshop is not the correct tool for web design. if you’re using photoshop for web design, then you’re producing low quality designs or you take too long.

but like i said, there are exceptions, namely band and video game websites, which are often more about eye candy than they are about interface — which is essentially the point here: photoshop is insufficient when it comes to user interface design. that’s not what it’s for.

So much dumb shit being posted in this thread.

Just because I know how to use After Effects doesn’t mean I’m going to stop using Final Cut Pro or Premier.

They serve different functions, even if one is more powerful. Premier/FCP are faster at doing video editing. After Effects is more powerful and better at producing high quality effects.

Just like Photoshop+Bridge can’t replace Lightbox. Just like InDesign can’t replace Acrobat.Just like Dreamweaver can’t … actually, fuck Dreamweaver.

No.

You’re adding so much to the debate.

I’ve only worked with about 30 different designers who use Photoshop, so my sample size isn’t that big, but only two of them produced designs that were web-friendly, and their PSDs were still shit. At least 80% of them were full-time designers. About half claimed to be web designers while the other half called themselves graphic designers.